cloudy cloudy

Author Topic: Solar anomalies in WD  (Read 3672 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 52.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2017, 07:48:29 AM »
One negative glitch this morning on the Davis/WD system. Attachment explains all. No glitch seen on the WH3083/WD. AFAIK, there is no explanation known to me at that time; it was just chugging along, minding its own business!

(negative glitch is down to zero, positive glitch is where it goes to much higher-than-normal levels)
Devil

Offline broadstairs

  • Stuart
  • Posts: 6,931
  • Broadstairs, Kent, UK
  • OS/Browser:
  • (Linux Mint)
  • Firefox 53.0
    • Broadstairs
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2017, 08:22:34 AM »
The more I think about this the more I feel that in order to get somewhere we need some way to log the raw data coming in, not just as currently is available where only the latest is captured but we need it running to a file which is appended to, ideally not as currently formatted but as one line per record from the logger and time stamped. That way it would be clear whether or not the raw data was bad.

Stuart

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 52.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2017, 09:12:19 AM »
Stuart

I agree with your thoughts, but programming that is something way beyond my capabilities now (gave it up 25 years ago, using a scientific dialect of Forth!).

I've just discovered a partial negative glitch on the Davis logs at 11:50 - 11:51, where the value dropped from 719 W/m to 401 W/m over 2 minutes for no apparent reason (it is possible that I may have missed similar errors). The other system displayed no drop in radiation at the same time, as it is wall-to-wall sunshine today.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 09:15:31 AM by Devil »
Devil

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 52.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2017, 12:50:44 PM »
Now that I'm looking for anomalies, I'm finding them. This one seems to be less serious in its consequences. The gramophone needle got stuck for about 30 minutes at 14:34 with the same value. Unlike the previous one on Davis, it is on the WH3083 system. No problem on the Davis system during this time. During this same period, another glitch, the UV index has dropped from 6.0 to 0.0 to resume correctly at 15:05 at 5.0 (I don't have UV on the Davis system). Curioser and curioser!
Devil

Offline broadstairs

  • Stuart
  • Posts: 6,931
  • Broadstairs, Kent, UK
  • OS/Browser:
  • (Linux Mint)
  • Firefox 53.0
    • Broadstairs
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2017, 04:55:46 PM »
One thing I have had trouble with is a black bird who liked to land on my solar sensor dropping the sunny value to overcast while he was on it. So glitches like that can happen depending on where your sensor is mounted.

Stuart

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 52.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2017, 08:08:28 AM »
Blackbirds are rare here, have seen a male twice this winter. Pigeons are more likely and have had poo on the Davis solar sensor on one occasion with obvious results - actually quite difficult to clean off. However, I can't see that being the cause of the glitches I've catalogued.

Both systems are behaving themselves just now.
Devil

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 52.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2017, 10:37:27 AM »
Several glitches on the WH3083 system. The attachment shows them clearly. At 19:12 there was a positive to 1662.88 with UV index rising to 1. From 22:34 to 23:03, there was a smaller positive, constant for hour at 680.16, UV mostly at 1. At 10:36 and 10:57, there were two positives to 1662.88 with the UV dropping from 8 to 1 in both cases. At 11.41, there was a negative  from about 920 W/m to 193.47 and UV index dropping from 10.0 to 4.0.

No glitches on the Davis system over the same period.
Devil

Offline Weather Display

  • Posts: 81,933
  • Davis VP2
  • New Zealand
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Chrome 57.0.2987.133
    • Weather Display
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2017, 08:49:20 PM »
as explained in my post above, for the WH3081 station, WD has to read the data from a different memory address on the console, to normal weather data
sometimes that will get out of sequence and so bad data will be returned
(what I need to do is check for the data being bad, e.g check on date or times in the data), so as to ignore that data

so trying to use a WH3081 station with the WD software to show that the davis solar glitches are not real etc is not really going to work
I would instead be using the cumulus software for both

I have though made WD ignore glitches in the data at night for the WH3081 station in the latest update of WD

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 52.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2017, 12:13:57 PM »
I'm sorry, Brian, we seem to be at cross-purposes. Please allow me to try and clarify the position.

Several years ago, I added the Davis solar device to my VP2 installation. From the very start, I was getting anomalous glitches, which I blamed on the device as everything else worked with WD. Davis could not understand the anomalies, no matter what we tried. I gave up on solar. Since then, I've tried it again on 2 occasions when I changed computers and operating systems, always with the same kind of glitches, but only on solar. I just cussed Davis!

A couple of months ago, my Davis anemometer gave up. As my Davis system was old, I decided to retire it and I bought the WH3083 because my pension would not run to a new Davis system and, at 85, my mind is not as active, so I decided to run it on the WD I was familiar with. I was flabbergasted to find that the solar system on it, with freshly installed WD software (no legacy errors), did exactly what I experienced for years with the Davis solar; it glitched totally unpredictably but only on solar. IOW, I have problems with WD with two independent sets of weather systems on two independently installed versions of WD and have had so (with Davis only) for many years.

In your last post, you suggest I use Cumulus for both. This is NOT what I want to do. If you were in the habit of driving a Rolls Royce, would you want to use a Mini as your main car? In any case, I have not been able to configure Cumulus as a second system with Davis AND WH3083. Also, I use other features in WD that Cumulus does not have. I'll continue to use WD with both systems, knowing that it's not perfect for solar/UV, at least here.

Out of curiosity, I did start Cumulus to see how it behaved at the time of a known glitch in WH3083. The attached graph shows the curve was smooth. The red is a freehand rendering of the same time data from WD as in the table.

Finally, the thing that flummoxes me the most is that there are no 'me too' responses from other WD users. How can it be that I have had the problem for years and no one else has seen it?
Devil

Offline broadstairs

  • Stuart
  • Posts: 6,931
  • Broadstairs, Kent, UK
  • OS/Browser:
  • (Linux Mint)
  • Firefox 53.0
    • Broadstairs
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2017, 02:52:19 PM »
I have just realised something about your solar sensor readings shown in your log files earlier in this thread, they all seem to show 2 decimal places. This is simply not possible with a Davis solar sensor as it only passes integer values, I've checked my log files and they all show values with .00 on the end. So we need to understand why yours have two decimal place values which are non zero.

Stuart

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 52.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2017, 10:04:30 AM »
Stuart

Good thinking. However, you are right but with WD/Davis. The decimal points are only in WD/WH3083.
Devil

Offline broadstairs

  • Stuart
  • Posts: 6,931
  • Broadstairs, Kent, UK
  • OS/Browser:
  • (Linux Mint)
  • Firefox 53.0
    • Broadstairs
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2017, 04:02:15 PM »
Stuart

Good thinking. However, you are right but with WD/Davis. The decimal points are only in WD/WH3083.

I did wonder after I had posted but was not completely sure whether or not those logs were Davis ones so left the comment to make sure.

Stuart

Offline Weather Display

  • Posts: 81,933
  • Davis VP2
  • New Zealand
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Chrome 57.0.2987.133
    • Weather Display
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2017, 06:53:00 PM »
as I have explained, the solar glitches from the WH3081 solar data will be to WD not handling when the data gets of sync very well
I have for now added to ignore that when its night time, but I need to come up with a way to know if the solar data (which is a different memory location) is out of sync and so ignore it, for the WH3081 data

Offline Devil

  • Posts: 1,408
  • Cyprus 3325'E 3455'N 300 m up
  • OS/Browser:
  • Win NT 10.0
  • Firefox 53.0
    • Mosfiloti weather services
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2017, 07:25:03 AM »
Thanks, Brian. It would be great if you could do that; I'd be very grateful. However, it is not just on the WH system that it happens, but also the Davis over several years. In fact, as I write (on a different computer; the weather one is dedicated), I've just seen a typical glitch on the Davis system as per attachment. This is a short one over 2 minutes, but I've seen occasional glitches lasting up to an hour, on both systems. On the attachment on the message of 24 April 2017, 14:13, there is a -hour one.

Can you please make me a happy Devil? :evil2: :evil2:
Devil

Offline broadstairs

  • Stuart
  • Posts: 6,931
  • Broadstairs, Kent, UK
  • OS/Browser:
  • (Linux Mint)
  • Firefox 53.0
    • Broadstairs
Re: Solar anomalies in WD
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2017, 08:43:09 AM »
Just to be completely clear on this ... you are saying that on the 24th April you saw the exact same anomaly for the exact same time frame on both your Davis system AND your WH3081.

If true this would tend to indicate that at least on the WH3081 WD is actually reading the correct value from the sensor and it is highly likely that since both sensors are reading almost exactly the same values there has to be an external effect coming from somewhere to cause this.

This would be extraordinary since I am not sure how any of us could explain the external effect which could cause this at least not by the sun. I suppose it could be some electrical interference but again very difficult to explain.

Stuart