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Author Topic: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients  (Read 2534 times)

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Offline sbuchan

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HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« on: August 06, 2011, 05:36:49 PM »
What is is the timeframe to see a HTML5 (non flash) version of WD Live?  As more and more clients are iPhones, and iPads, and this fall AppleTV2s .. flash is going to serve a smaller and smaller audience.

Steve Buchan
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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2011, 07:48:33 PM »
I doubt there will be a conversion from WDLive to HTML5.   There are already other topics where people are creating widgets and tablet views of their data.

I'm not sure if Julian (author of WDLive) has the time or the motivation to start up a new project for this.

This is more of a WDLive discussion topic than a WD Feature suggestion though as this is more of a publishing your data thing than a collecting your weather thing.

You can always start creating your own though.  A lot of people have created web versions of their data.

All you need is Time, Aptitude and Desire ... and you can build just about anything...

dwesley226

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 01:18:34 PM »
As more and more clients are iPhones, and iPads, and this fall AppleTV2s .. flash is going to serve a smaller and smaller audience.
I think you are over estimating iPhone/pad usage. This link shows Apple only has a 16.7% market share while Android is rapidly increasing its share, now at 25.5% up 3.5% over last year. Maybe your request should be directed to Apple to support flash.
smartphone-operating-system
IMHO, Doug
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 01:22:59 PM by dwesley226 »

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 06:15:42 PM »
If you are talking about mobile phones... I don't think flash is really even the issue with the type of data being displayed.

Even if your phone supports it, I don't think WDLive makes a good mobile display of the data that can be created in a format that would be good viewable on a wide number of devices.  It is more designed to be on a full page browsers.  It also, like on a full page, takes a long time to load.  That is okay, if you have it displayed for long periods of time in a tab or on a full page... but for most mobile use when you are switching from one thing to another quickly all the time, it takes too long

Even with a smartphone that can display Flash (most non-Apple devices), it is not easy to use as you typically have to resize to get it to fit.

Another big difference is what looks good on a large screen, normally doesn't on a mobile screen.  Lots of dials for example are hard to read on smaller screens where numbers are much more important.

There are already a number of people who are using web based pages for mobile output that provide similar information and look much better on multiple mobile devices (including droid and iPhones on the same page).

On tablets, which larger screens, WDLive does much better since it can be viewed at a larger size that makes it possible to view the information.  However, even there, you can craft a web page to do similar information.

I don't create flash content, but I think (and I could be wrong) that if you need to support various different sizes, you would need to have a number of different versions to make them display well.  Mobile displays are very limited in size, and how you craft a mobile version of something is much different than doing it for a much larger display.

Example... (note, this WDLive page was NOT changed to better suit a mobile display):

My existing WDLive on my mobile phone portrait mode.



I can switch to landscape mode, but then the bottom of the flash display is cut off.

In both cases, I had to play with the browser screen to get it to the point where it was on the page.  It also takes a long time to load, typically 20-30 seconds.  A long time when you want a quick glimpse of the current weather for the station.

Since this is a mobile smartphone, you would not stay on that for any real period of time, since you are using your phone for other things.  In my case, a lot of different things.

My mobile web page however is quick to load, formatted for a display (looks as good on a droid and an iPhone) makes it easy to quickly see what the temp is, hi and low, other more detailed data, loads on just about any browser and has additional tabs for more information for a more detailed look at the data.

On my mobile web page, a view for mobile is designed for mobile use.


Newer format on left, much older format on right, both are scrollable to get more info

Reformatting WDLive for Mobile Output

Can you format a WDLive page for mobile use, perhaps.  Would it look good on the various different sizes of mobile displays etc... most likely not.

Would be a good challenge though, however, you won't get much participation from devices that don't support flash to begin with.

All you need is Time, Aptitude and Desire ... and you can build just about anything...

dwesley226

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 07:17:12 PM »
You are exactly right.

Have a great day, Doug

« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 09:18:19 PM by dwesley226 »

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 09:05:21 PM »
I guess my point is if you want to view your WDL try out an Inspire.

So you need to buy a specific phone to view your mobile website?

All you need is Time, Aptitude and Desire ... and you can build just about anything...

dwesley226

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2011, 09:16:47 PM »
So you need to buy a specific phone to view your mobile website?
That was not the point of the post at all. I was merely relaying my experiences with the Inspire, Android, and flash. Sorry, wont happen again. Will keep my experiences to myself.

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2011, 09:19:39 PM »
But even if you can view it, it doesn't make it a good mobile page.  Which was my point.



You can't switch to landscape because it gets cut off and you can't adjust the screen to see it.

Might be okay for a tablet if they can view it, but then you are not really using a mobile page view.

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Offline mathewmackenzie

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 07:20:07 AM »
There's a great java based app called iWDL - I'm sure many of you are aware of it. I use it for my site. Works well portrait/landscape on IOS and Android...

www.hssc.net/weather/iwdl/

Offline Tornado Tim

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 08:49:01 AM »
I personally believe Flash is going "out" due HTML5 doing what Flash can do and not using nearly as much CPU as Flash does.

Also Flash development for Mobile Devices is now suspended: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/09/adobe-discontinues-development-on-mobile-flash/

So I suspect eventually Flash will die for the whole market.
Since WDL is closed sourced and with HTML5 being open, I agree what TNET said that its doubtful that WDL will be ported to HTML5.

All HTML versions of the likes of WDL will use the canvas element and be updated using AJAX.


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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2011, 07:52:30 AM »
I personally believe Flash is going "out" due HTML5 doing what Flash can do and not using nearly as much CPU as Flash does.

Also Flash development for Mobile Devices is now suspended: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/09/adobe-discontinues-development-on-mobile-flash/

1) Note that "Mobile Flash" is what is being discontinued.  WDL is not really designed for mobile use.
2) There are many tools for creating Flash, not so much for HTML5 yet and not nearly the number of developers yet.
3) HTML5 has come a long way, but it is hardly standard in its implementation on all browsers, including Mobile Browsers so just because it can, doesn't mean it will.  Big advantage to Flash is that it is standardized.

Don't see many jumping forth to volunteer their time building a WDL HTML5 replacement.

There's a great java based app called iWDL - I'm sure many of you are aware of it. I use it for my site. Works well portrait/landscape on IOS and Android...

www.hssc.net/weather/iwdl/

I think you mean to say JavaScript, not Java.  They are not the same thing.

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Offline Softvark

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 06:35:33 PM »
There are lots of problems with trying to create an animation like WDL in html 5 at the moment. As Kevin says there are standards issues, very few developer tools and what is available is very much preview technology and primitive. In addition using javascript and the DOM for an animation is ironically quite resource intensive for some browsers.

I'm sure things will improve, tools will mature, standards will develop and browser compatibility will increase. However at the moment it is all very cutting edge.

Julian

Offline flemmingski

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2011, 11:55:27 AM »
Hey Kevin
Would it be possible to have a copy of your mobile version script to play with?
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Offline steve_p

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2011, 04:01:10 PM »
There are lots of problems with trying to create an animation like WDL in html 5 at the moment. As Kevin says there are standards issues, very few developer tools and what is available is very much preview technology and primitive. In addition using javascript and the DOM for an animation is ironically quite resource intensive for some browsers.

I'm sure things will improve, tools will mature, standards will develop and browser compatibility will increase. However at the moment it is all very cutting edge.

Julian

I'm wondering if it might be possible to configure the WDL SWF to display alternative (HTML-based) content where Flash is not installed, as described here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/articles/swfobject.html

This would be particularly useful for transparently/dynamically loading, say, the Saratoga Weather AJAX 'live weather' page in lieu of WDL on a device like the iPad, which is never going to support Flash.

Any chance that this could be added to a future WDL release?

Cheers.

Offline Softvark

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Re: HTML5 Rendering for iPad,iPhone clients
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2011, 05:11:11 PM »
I'm wondering if it might be possible to configure the WDL SWF to display alternative (HTML-based) content where Flash is not installed, as described here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/articles/swfobject.html

This would be particularly useful for transparently/dynamically loading, say, the Saratoga Weather AJAX 'live weather' page in lieu of WDL on a device like the iPad, which is never going to support Flash.

It may be possible now - WDL uses the swf object in the sample html page, so it should be possible to configure the html page to display alternative content.

Julian