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Author Topic: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night  (Read 89753 times)

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Offline N7XSQ

  • Posts: 438
  • Phoenix, Arizona
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2008, 10:40:31 PM »
The average temperature in space is about 4 degrees Kelvin. If you infrared couple an object to the night sky, the sky will act as an infrared sink and the object will radiate its heat away into space. However, the object must be shielded from local things at normal temperatures, or the infrared that they radiate will be absorbed by your object and keep it warm. I have heard that the desert nomads made ice by placing water in the folds of a rumpled cloth spread out on the desert floor on a calm night. The humps in the cloth shielded the water from the infrared being emitted by the nearby sand dunes and let it cool down towards sky temperatures. A similar high school science demonstration involves putting a little water in a Dewar flask and leaving it outside on a windless night.

RE: black bodies.
Amongst my collection of useless tidbits that I have collected over the years was a short item I once saw in Popular Science or some similar publication. They said a reasonable approximation of a black body object had been made inexpensively by bolting a bunch of razor blades together side by side. Something about the way the blades narrowed in a curved manner towards the sharp edges, light would get trapped in the grooves formed by the assembly, and bounce back and forth many millions of times, thus having a high likelyhood of being absorbed and re-radiated. They said its spectra was close to the spectra of an ideal black body, although I think that they might have been talking about temperatures considerably higher than room.

Steve

Offline Weather Display

  • Posts: 64,521
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2008, 11:04:13 PM »
i think the pelteir idea (i.e boltwood cloud sensor) has sheilding in place to stop the radiation from sideways sort of thing..

Offline skyewright

  • Posts: 1,994
  • Isle of Skye, Scotland
    • 24 Elgol
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2008, 08:16:51 AM »
you need to have a black body to get it coming up as colder Bashy...which you do not have, so its not going to work until you do
Attached is a shot of my 'jar'.

To make this suitable for cloud detection as well as daytime solar, which bit do I need to blacken?

The probe itself?
The stem (an old pen body)?
Some part of the jar?
Some combination of those?
Something else?

Any hints appreciated.  :)

PS. The small 'dots' near the top right of the jar are not condensation - they are small bumps moulded into the glass for some reason...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 08:18:41 AM by skyewright »
Regards
David

Offline Weather Display

  • Posts: 64,521
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2008, 08:49:12 AM »
try putting black tape around the bottom half of the jar....

Offline weatherc

  • Posts: 1,636
  • Salo, Finland
    • Weatherstation Salo,FI
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2008, 09:00:01 AM »
Brian!

Is it possible to add this cool feature also to us who use the 1-wire solarsensor too (that what use the diode and mv's)?  :wink:

My solarsensor has a tempsensor too and it is often colder than my maintemp at nights when clear nights.

Henkka
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 09:02:12 AM by weatherc »

Offline Weather Display

  • Posts: 64,521
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2008, 09:05:36 AM »
if you can set that solar sensor temp sensor as a normal 1 wire temp sensor and get that set to be a extra temp sensor and then have that selected, then yes

Offline skyewright

  • Posts: 1,994
  • Isle of Skye, Scotland
    • 24 Elgol
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2008, 09:31:27 AM »
try putting black tape around the bottom half of the jar....
Nice and straight forward. Sounds good to me. I'll give it a try. Thank you.  :)
Regards
David

Offline weatherc

  • Posts: 1,636
  • Salo, Finland
    • Weatherstation Salo,FI
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2008, 10:31:24 AM »
if you can set that solar sensor temp sensor as a normal 1 wire temp sensor and get that set to be a extra temp sensor and then have that selected, then yes

Ok, thanks Brian! Will do a test. Atm I have that tempvalues shown on WD's maindisplay as %dallashumtemp2%  :wink:

Just a little question, where in solarsetup should this new feature appear?

My solar-in-jar-screen is almost empty and I have now allocated the solarsensors temp as extrasensor #2 (see att.)

« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 10:47:30 AM by weatherc »

Bashy

  • Guest
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2008, 01:05:50 PM »
If your on about the cloud sensor settings then its in Setup (menu) then
advanced/Misc settings, then Boltwood Cloud Sensor, then its the bottom box :)

Offline weatherc

  • Posts: 1,636
  • Salo, Finland
    • Weatherstation Salo,FI
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2008, 01:26:37 PM »
If your on about the cloud sensor settings then its in Setup (menu) then
advanced/Misc settings, then Boltwood Cloud Sensor, then its the bottom box :)

Thanks Bashy!  :wink:

Offline Weather Display

  • Posts: 64,521
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2008, 05:42:31 PM »
cant remember if I have a setup to allow to allocate a dallas 1 wire hum temp to normal extra temp...that would be what is needed

Offline weatherc

  • Posts: 1,636
  • Salo, Finland
    • Weatherstation Salo,FI
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2008, 06:36:27 PM »
cant remember if I have a setup to allow to allocate a dallas 1 wire hum temp to normal extra temp...that would be what is needed

Seems you are right Brian! I have tryed to allocate hum temp sensor to extra temp but gives out only -20.0 C...see att.

Henkka

Offline berdalweather

  • Martin
  • Posts: 714
  • Davis VP2 Plus - Model #6163
  • Berdal, Vinje, Norway
    • www.berdalweather.net
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2008, 06:41:23 PM »
This is really interesting, would be nice to know if it's cloudy or not at nighttime.

Where do I begin, I don't have anything except my main VP2 setup. Like what do I need to get this thing going etc. :)

Best Regards,
Martin

Offline Weather Display

  • Posts: 64,521
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2008, 06:46:24 PM »
if you set to plot extra temp #3, is that data coming through ok?

Offline weatherc

  • Posts: 1,636
  • Salo, Finland
    • Weatherstation Salo,FI
Re: Detecting Cloudy or Clear night
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2008, 07:12:56 PM »
if you set to plot extra temp #3, is that data coming through ok?

Not really sure what what you mean with plot, but customtag %dallasextratemp3% gives me -20.0 and the readingstab in 1-wiresetup shows like attached image.

I tested with extrasensor #2, what is shown as Davis raingauge in the readingtab and what is a normal tempsensor allocated as extra temp #2, and then solartemp was right and icon changed to cloudy night ;)

Henkka